tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27054305.post5359603482823149887..comments2023-12-23T04:56:29.702-05:00Comments on Ferule & Fescue: Professional-class parentingFlaviahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17832765671541392835noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27054305.post-65831831410364220552012-02-06T06:08:06.566-05:002012-02-06T06:08:06.566-05:00I think what a lot of people miss is that tiger mo...I think what a lot of people miss is that tiger mothering does not guarantee the children will get into an Ivy League school either. Just because one of Amy's children got into Harvard does not tell us that all of her actual or potential children will (or would). It also happens to be that case that not everyone who gets into an Ivy League school has either worked all their life to get there, or is guaranteed success (by any definition) when they graduate. And, by the way, I did graduate Rutgers (the actual Rutgers) and then went to an Ivy League grad school.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27054305.post-30921124062529822792011-04-17T15:21:54.028-04:002011-04-17T15:21:54.028-04:00Historiann & Susan: I think you're both ri...Historiann & Susan: I think you're both right that the west (where I myself grew up) is different. For one thing, there are fewer colleges and universities, and academic prestige and athletic prowess often blur into each other to such a degree that locals feel ownership over institutions to which they have no personal connection.<br /><br />In my hometown, which has a very good public school district, education and academic success were highly valued, but not in a status-conscious way; college admissions just wasn't about the things it seems to be about to some Eastern parents. People knew that Stanford was harder to get into than UW, and certainly were proud of or impressed by the kids who got in--but ultimately the two schools were perceived as much more similar than different, and getting into either was a cause for pride.<br /><br />And really: I think most of the country is "western" in this way. Even in the Boston-D.C. corridor, we're still talking about pockets: the cities themselves and the suburbs immediately around them. Go more than a couple of hours away, and the "professional-class parents" are likely to be focused on UMass, UBuffalo, and Penn State.Flaviahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17832765671541392835noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27054305.post-72602475108658681122011-04-17T13:14:05.259-04:002011-04-17T13:14:05.259-04:00What 'nora said. I had an uncle who wouldn...What 'nora said. I had an uncle who wouldn't pay for his son's college because his son didn't get into Harvard. (My cousin worked on that one!) Even as a kid I thought that was nuts. <br /><br />I've found the transition to the west, where people take good public land grant universities for granted very refreshing. And the older I get, the more people I meet who have succeeded even though (!)they did NOT go to Harvard, Yale, or Princeton.Susanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09716705206734059708noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27054305.post-85445887656203436232011-04-16T19:33:22.988-04:002011-04-16T19:33:22.988-04:00What 'nora said. This is a great post--I can&...What 'nora said. This is a great post--I can't stand Flanagan, and I don't really see this article as changing my mind about the value of her analysis. Thanks for sorting it all out so I don't have to, Flavia!<br /><br />This is the wonderful thing about living in the West. People are extremely pleased and proud for having children who attend and graduate from Baa Ram U. and Flagship U. here in Colorado. While sometimes I wish the culture here encouraged students to look across state lines a little more often when contemplating college, I'm extremely happy and relieved not to have to deal with parents like those of the upper-middle class in the BosWash corridor. (Even here there are lots of children who live in the backs of minivans on fast food as they're shuttled from practice to practice to game, etc.) <br /><br />Just one more thought: my husband and I arguably attended colleges we couldn't get into today because we're Gen X Baby Busters who started college in 1984 and 1986, when even extremely elite colleges and unis were worried about filling their freshman classes. They had expanded to such a capacity to accomodate the Baby Boom that they were falling all over themselves to fill up by the later 1980s. What I've heard and read so far is that this year is probably another new high for applicants to college, so children looking to apply in 10-15 years may be lucky like us and benefit from some slack in the system.Historiannhttp://historiann.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27054305.post-68516403092442740422011-04-16T11:37:14.835-04:002011-04-16T11:37:14.835-04:00FLG: exactly. The close of Flanagan's essay re...FLG: exactly. The close of Flanagan's essay reveals how little distance she actually has from the people she's ostensibly satirizing: <i>she herself</i> believes in the significance and finality of the judgments that get made about a person's abilities, intelligence, and potential when he's 17 or 18 years old. She's bought the same putrid bill of goods. <br /><br />Her essay really isn't so different from all the others one sees in the <i>NYT</i> and similar venues about the college application process, where it's just assumed that it's hugely fraught and pressurized--and that every kid thinks his life will be over if he doesn't get into Harvard (or Dartmouth or Duke or Williams). Outside of certain enclaves, I just don't think this is the reality.<br /><br />Certainly, it doesn't seem to have been the reality for most of the kids who actually get into and go to places like INRU, if my experience as a student, teacher, and (ahem!) alumni interviewer is anything to go by. (Although that could just reflect the mismatch between what parents, teenagers, and HS guidance counselors in Westchester or wherever <i>think</i> Ivy League schools want, and what they actually want.)Flaviahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17832765671541392835noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27054305.post-28583344381259577082011-04-16T11:23:59.196-04:002011-04-16T11:23:59.196-04:00I wish the Caitlin Flanagans and Any Chuas of the ...I wish the Caitlin Flanagans and Any Chuas of the world would stop forcing us to frame academic success in terms of the Ivy League. It's such a narrow definition of 'academic achievement.' I didn't go to an Ivy League school, but I still got a very good education (including really top-flight graduate studies) and am by most standards a successful professional adult. Maybe it's just me, but I tend to think that "successful adult" is a better long-term goal for one's children than "Ivy League acceptance letter." Or is that just my plebeian showing?'norahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04673994227824410949noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27054305.post-43658861607034952942011-04-16T06:54:55.104-04:002011-04-16T06:54:55.104-04:00Loose the opportunity forever?
Some people fail...Loose the opportunity forever? <br /><br />Some people fail out of college spectacularly, but graduate from Georgetown.FLGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04153989000780677971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27054305.post-14205065101194641542011-04-16T01:52:48.371-04:002011-04-16T01:52:48.371-04:00Amen. My parents, like yours, were supportive and...Amen. My parents, like yours, were supportive and proud of whatever accomplishments, but never made me feel like they wouldn't be if I wound up in some other life. They didn't produce my ambition with emotional terrorism, nor did they get in its way. And you know, I think this is one of the big reasons why my parents are now among my best friends. They've just always let me know that they liked me (aside from love), and trusted me to find a path that was suited to my personality. That's what I want my boys to feel from me.Renaissance Girlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06243095907452011303noreply@blogger.com