tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27054305.post2244268427314010448..comments2023-12-23T04:56:29.702-05:00Comments on Ferule & Fescue: "And with your spirit"Flaviahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17832765671541392835noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27054305.post-5972058506419827492011-11-29T10:33:33.021-05:002011-11-29T10:33:33.021-05:00Anon: there are three different penitential rites ...Anon: there are three different penitential rites that the presider can choose among (just as there were in the old translation), and I doubt the breast-beating one will be particularly popular. <br /><br />Options B and C are fine, though, with B probably being my favorite (1.Have mercy on us, O Lord/2.For we have sinned against you/1.Show us, O Lord, your mercy/2.And grant us your salvation) and C retaining the perfectly serviceable "Lord have mercy/Christ have mercy/Love have mercy" responses, though the priest's lines have changed slightly.Flaviahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17832765671541392835noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27054305.post-82622176722501599042011-11-29T09:57:28.638-05:002011-11-29T09:57:28.638-05:00The one I have a serious problem wtih is early in ...The one I have a serious problem wtih is early in the mass when we say "for my sin, for my sin, for my really horrible sin" (or whatever it is) ... are we supposed to beat ourselves and put on hairshirts too? The rest of it is not bad I guess.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27054305.post-73392153696626309512011-11-29T04:46:38.455-05:002011-11-29T04:46:38.455-05:00Okay, I have to retract part of the second paragra...Okay, I have to retract part of the second paragraph of my comment, because it turns out the eucharistic prayer I considered too Latinate is actually part of the old rite, not the new translation! Whoops. ...although I still think much in the new translation bears out my contention that it just sounds too legalistic. Translators often have to sacrifice euphony for accuracy, but thoughtful translators don't have to do so at every turn.Jeffhttp://www.quidplura.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27054305.post-67636389538014757142011-11-28T20:58:55.583-05:002011-11-28T20:58:55.583-05:00I actually do think there's a meaningful diffe...I actually do think there's a meaningful difference in some of it. Seen and unseen does not mean the same as visible and invisible. There are lots of things I don't see right now that are still, strictly speaking, visible. Invisible is another kettle of fish. I also think there might be a meaningful difference between the terms "being" and "substance" but it's probably lost on most people. But since the technical Greek term behind consubstantial is homoousias and ousia is better rendered substance than anything else, I'll take it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27054305.post-70247187605516171332011-11-28T20:15:35.532-05:002011-11-28T20:15:35.532-05:00Jeff:
Yes, that's a really smart observation,...Jeff:<br /><br />Yes, that's a really smart observation, re: the Anglo-Saxon in the old translation. It's stunning to think that this new translation actually reflects some efforts to smooth out the awkwardness of the first pass the committee made after receiving the Vatican's directives (and after public outcry).<br /><br />I'll say that I think it sounds better than it reads, though that may just reflect the fact that our pastor is a warm and personable fellow with great stage presence (and a former professor of liturgy); not every priest, alas, can read in a way that helps to convey to his audience the sense of every clause.Flaviahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17832765671541392835noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27054305.post-91513363444591795172011-11-28T04:59:26.217-05:002011-11-28T04:59:26.217-05:00I've only read the new mass and haven't ye...I've only read the new mass and haven't yet heard it aloud, but the translators' insistence on Latinate terms like "oblation" and "consubstantial" really made me see, as I hadn't before, just how Anglo-Saxon in language the "old" English mass really is.<br /><br />"Father, hear the prayers of the family you have gathered here before you. In mercy and love, unite all your children, wherever they may be." That's mostly Anglo-Saxon vocabulary, and it paints a poignant little picture, while the new version sounds like it was drafted by a lawyer: "Father, in your mercy grant also to us, your children, to enter into our heavenly inheritance." (Look at the placement of that "also." It's the work of someone who's thinking more about the source language than the target language. Anyone's who's studied and translated Latin has written dead English prose like this; I'd have hoped that official church translators would have developed more flair than first-year grad students.)<br /><br />Whatever flaws the "old" mass may have had, its replacement has me appreciating anew its simple, solid imagery and lack of pretension.Jeffhttp://www.quidplura.comnoreply@blogger.com